Comments on: Attractional church verses missional church http://timchester.wordpress.com/2008/09/21/attractional-church-verses-missional-church/ reformed spirituality and missional church Fri, 04 Dec 2009 21:14:58 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: thechurchonthehill http://timchester.wordpress.com/2008/09/21/attractional-church-verses-missional-church/#comment-3584 thechurchonthehill Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:23:48 +0000 http://timchester.wordpress.com/?p=429#comment-3584 Excellent thoughts! I think balance is just one of those fundamental disciplines of doctrine and theology and we need a great deal of wisdom to find the right balance in this regard. The church should grow up past this "pendulum theology" where we swing back from the one extreme to the next. In order to be most effective at reaching the lost we need balance and maturity and lots of passion! Your last comment about the church with $1.5 budget for their "show" is really heart breaking! I want to say something about how it makes me feel but I feel I would just be judging from a distance - But its really sad! Excellent thoughts!

I think balance is just one of those fundamental disciplines of doctrine and theology and we need a great deal of wisdom to find the right balance in this regard. The church should grow up past this “pendulum theology” where we swing back from the one extreme to the next. In order to be most effective at reaching the lost we need balance and maturity and lots of passion!

Your last comment about the church with $1.5 budget for their “show” is really heart breaking! I want to say something about how it makes me feel but I feel I would just be judging from a distance – But its really sad!

]]> By: Wes http://timchester.wordpress.com/2008/09/21/attractional-church-verses-missional-church/#comment-3583 Wes Mon, 22 Sep 2008 19:36:52 +0000 http://timchester.wordpress.com/?p=429#comment-3583 Thanks for your post, Tim. It is really easy for us to read our specific cultural understanding of "church" into the text, and I appreciate how you are attempting to understand these passages in their original context and motivate the missional calling of the church. Thanks for your post, Tim. It is really easy for us to read our specific cultural understanding of “church” into the text, and I appreciate how you are attempting to understand these passages in their original context and motivate the missional calling of the church.

]]> By: Tim Chester http://timchester.wordpress.com/2008/09/21/attractional-church-verses-missional-church/#comment-3576 Tim Chester Mon, 22 Sep 2008 07:28:53 +0000 http://timchester.wordpress.com/?p=429#comment-3576 Hi Shane I don't want to minimise the gathering of believers. This is where the culture is set. (But I don't necessarily want to load it all into one key meeting each week and I certainly don't want to invest in making it a good performance). I'm surprised, though, that you assume declaring the excellencies of God in 1 Peter 2 refers to a corporate gathering. Honestly that had never occurred to me. I wonder if you might be reading it through the lens of your church practice!? I have always assumed it referred to evangelism. Isn't that exactly what we do in evangelism: extol the glory of our God? And this is the context. Peter is alluding heavily to Exodus 19 where Israel is commissioned to be a holy nation and a kingdom of priest. In other words, they to be a distinctive nation among the nations that makes God known (Deut 4:5-8). They are to be a kingdom of priests who (just as the priests did within Israel) declare God's word and bring the nation to the means of atonement. This is also how Peter develops the idea in verses 11-12 - with Christians living such good lives among the world that they see our good deeds and give glory to God. Then in the rest of chapter 2 he works out what this means in terms of relation to the state and to masters. The section is not about what the church does when it gathers, but the church in relation to the world around it. Hi Shane
I don’t want to minimise the gathering of believers. This is where the culture is set. (But I don’t necessarily want to load it all into one key meeting each week and I certainly don’t want to invest in making it a good performance).

I’m surprised, though, that you assume declaring the excellencies of God in 1 Peter 2 refers to a corporate gathering. Honestly that had never occurred to me. I wonder if you might be reading it through the lens of your church practice!? I have always assumed it referred to evangelism. Isn’t that exactly what we do in evangelism: extol the glory of our God? And this is the context. Peter is alluding heavily to Exodus 19 where Israel is commissioned to be a holy nation and a kingdom of priest. In other words, they to be a distinctive nation among the nations that makes God known (Deut 4:5-8). They are to be a kingdom of priests who (just as the priests did within Israel) declare God’s word and bring the nation to the means of atonement. This is also how Peter develops the idea in verses 11-12 – with Christians living such good lives among the world that they see our good deeds and give glory to God. Then in the rest of chapter 2 he works out what this means in terms of relation to the state and to masters. The section is not about what the church does when it gathers, but the church in relation to the world around it.

]]> By: Jason Reid http://timchester.wordpress.com/2008/09/21/attractional-church-verses-missional-church/#comment-3575 Jason Reid Mon, 22 Sep 2008 06:04:00 +0000 http://timchester.wordpress.com/?p=429#comment-3575 Tim Good to see you posting again. Its so important that we remember that church is something we are not something we attend. Your false polarisation is spot on, I spend so much time explaining that we are not just doing house church, because they assume all we have done is move the Sunday service into our front room. Tim

Good to see you posting again. Its so important that we remember that church is something we are not something we attend. Your false polarisation is spot on, I spend so much time explaining that we are not just doing house church, because they assume all we have done is move the Sunday service into our front room.

]]> By: attractional vs missional church « shane’s blog http://timchester.wordpress.com/2008/09/21/attractional-church-verses-missional-church/#comment-3570 attractional vs missional church « shane’s blog Mon, 22 Sep 2008 04:33:55 +0000 http://timchester.wordpress.com/?p=429#comment-3570 [...] attractional vs missional church Tim Chester from the Crowded House has recently written here on a false polarisation between so called attractional (you come to us) and missional  (we go to [...] [...] attractional vs missional church Tim Chester from the Crowded House has recently written here on a false polarisation between so called attractional (you come to us) and missional  (we go to [...]

]]> By: Shane http://timchester.wordpress.com/2008/09/21/attractional-church-verses-missional-church/#comment-3569 Shane Mon, 22 Sep 2008 02:01:25 +0000 http://timchester.wordpress.com/?p=429#comment-3569 Hi Tim I am wondering what you make of stuff like Psalm 96 which is sung in earshot of the nations missionally as it was sung and proclaimed in a corporate worship gathering. Likewise 1 Peter 2 seems to suggest a corporate worship gathering where the proclamation of the excellencies of Christ happens. This is not to deny that church is a network of relationships but I'm also keen to not minimise the significance of the community of beleivers assembling for praise and proc as a missional event. This seems to be more than a Sunday fixation. what do you think? Hi Tim
I am wondering what you make of stuff like Psalm 96 which is sung in earshot of the nations missionally as it was sung and proclaimed in a corporate worship gathering. Likewise 1 Peter 2 seems to suggest a corporate worship gathering where the proclamation of the excellencies of Christ happens. This is not to deny that church is a network of relationships but I’m also keen to not minimise the significance of the community of beleivers assembling for praise and proc as a missional event. This seems to be more than a Sunday fixation. what do you think?

]]> By: Attractional Versus Missional Church | Kouya Chronicle http://timchester.wordpress.com/2008/09/21/attractional-church-verses-missional-church/#comment-3568 Attractional Versus Missional Church | Kouya Chronicle Sun, 21 Sep 2008 21:44:19 +0000 http://timchester.wordpress.com/?p=429#comment-3568 [...] Tim Chester has just posted an interesting contribution to an ongoing debate: But in my talk I suggested it attractional church verses missional church is a false polarization. The problem is in fact that both sides view church as a meeting you attend. Even those who reject attractional church implicitly view church as a meeting. But everything changes if you view church as a community or a network of relationships. Then attractional church is not about putting on a good show, but about a community life that attracts people to God. (read more) [...] [...] Tim Chester has just posted an interesting contribution to an ongoing debate: But in my talk I suggested it attractional church verses missional church is a false polarization. The problem is in fact that both sides view church as a meeting you attend. Even those who reject attractional church implicitly view church as a meeting. But everything changes if you view church as a community or a network of relationships. Then attractional church is not about putting on a good show, but about a community life that attracts people to God. (read more) [...]

]]> By: Coffee Break « fresh expressions… http://timchester.wordpress.com/2008/09/21/attractional-church-verses-missional-church/#comment-3567 Coffee Break « fresh expressions… Sun, 21 Sep 2008 11:52:59 +0000 http://timchester.wordpress.com/?p=429#comment-3567 [...] Chester has a great post “Attractional Church verses Missional Church”. I guess it is great because he agrees with what I was trying to say here.  Tim as usual just says [...] [...] Chester has a great post “Attractional Church verses Missional Church”. I guess it is great because he agrees with what I was trying to say here.  Tim as usual just says [...]

]]>